Posts by just n from bethel

16

Got the new dvd

by twinkle toes in

well, i was just given the new dvd from the convention and i am trying to figure out if i should watch it or not.

on one hand i enjoy uncovering the hypocrisy, it's a good reminder as to why i am faded away.. on the other hand i dont know if i should waste my time watching crap.. thoughts?.

tt.

just n from bethel

watch it - but give it the Myster Science 3000 treatment.

235

For Terry - So That it Will "Make Sense"

by Perry in

terry, since you have long proclaimed your inability to comprehend the greatest expression of love in the universe, substitutionary atonement; perhaps this scene from the last of the mohicans will help you to understand.. the chief has just handed down a death sentence to the brunette daughter of the captured english general.

the english officer in this scene can speak both english and french.

since daniel day lewis can only speak mohican and english, and the cheif can only speak huron and french, the captured english officer must translate to the chief in french.

just n from bethel

does this work

235

For Terry - So That it Will "Make Sense"

by Perry in

terry, since you have long proclaimed your inability to comprehend the greatest expression of love in the universe, substitutionary atonement; perhaps this scene from the last of the mohicans will help you to understand.. the chief has just handed down a death sentence to the brunette daughter of the captured english general.

the english officer in this scene can speak both english and french.

since daniel day lewis can only speak mohican and english, and the cheif can only speak huron and french, the captured english officer must translate to the chief in french.

just n from bethel

guess not

100

For Perry: There was no global flood, so stop looking for Noah's Ark

by BurnTheShips in

forget about noahs ark; there was no worldwide flood.

many people have contacted me about the recent claims by a group called noahs ark ministries international.1 the evangelical organization claims to have discovered noahs ark.2 i have responded on several occasions to these dubious claims on my blog.3 and still, this group has stood behind their claim,4 insisting that what they have found is real based largely on the belief that because the bible says the flood and the ark are historical, it must be so.

so, instead of addressing their spurious claims yet again, i thought i would approach the issue from a different angle: forget about noahs ark; there was no world-wide flood.. the worldwide flood described in genesis 6-9 is not historical, but rather a combination of at least two flood stories, both of which descended from earlier mesopotamian flood narratives.

just n from bethel

"A very real possibility was that the animals Noah put in the Ark were not full grown."

I have no response other than this link: http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104295/?searchterm=With+Apologies+to+Jesse+Jackson

I'm Cartman and Perry is David.

Sorry I can't embed.

235

For Terry - So That it Will "Make Sense"

by Perry in

terry, since you have long proclaimed your inability to comprehend the greatest expression of love in the universe, substitutionary atonement; perhaps this scene from the last of the mohicans will help you to understand.. the chief has just handed down a death sentence to the brunette daughter of the captured english general.

the english officer in this scene can speak both english and french.

since daniel day lewis can only speak mohican and english, and the cheif can only speak huron and french, the captured english officer must translate to the chief in french.

just n from bethel

sorry - couldn't figure out how to embed - link is still clickable though.

235

For Terry - So That it Will "Make Sense"

by Perry in

terry, since you have long proclaimed your inability to comprehend the greatest expression of love in the universe, substitutionary atonement; perhaps this scene from the last of the mohicans will help you to understand.. the chief has just handed down a death sentence to the brunette daughter of the captured english general.

the english officer in this scene can speak both english and french.

since daniel day lewis can only speak mohican and english, and the cheif can only speak huron and french, the captured english officer must translate to the chief in french.

just n from bethel

"God died vicariously for ALL"

100

For Perry: There was no global flood, so stop looking for Noah's Ark

by BurnTheShips in

forget about noahs ark; there was no worldwide flood.

many people have contacted me about the recent claims by a group called noahs ark ministries international.1 the evangelical organization claims to have discovered noahs ark.2 i have responded on several occasions to these dubious claims on my blog.3 and still, this group has stood behind their claim,4 insisting that what they have found is real based largely on the belief that because the bible says the flood and the ark are historical, it must be so.

so, instead of addressing their spurious claims yet again, i thought i would approach the issue from a different angle: forget about noahs ark; there was no world-wide flood.. the worldwide flood described in genesis 6-9 is not historical, but rather a combination of at least two flood stories, both of which descended from earlier mesopotamian flood narratives.

just n from bethel

"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation."

Here is the rule for writing an irrefutable prophecy.

1) Make Outlandish claim about the future

2) Make another claim that people won't believe your first claim.

3) Sit back and observe followers proclaim "ha ha! see - you're not believing - so this must be true!"

17

Need help fact checking public talk at the DC

by just n from bethel in

i have taken the time to transcribe part of the public talk given at the dc.

it was interesting because it basically said the witnesses used the bible to fortell the fall of the axis powers in wwii.

now when i first heard the speaker say it - my ears perked up.

just n from bethel

Ok so I found one interesting item: It's a Brochure that's basically a reprint of a talk by Rutherford from 1941. It's titled: "End of Axis Powers: Comfort All that Mourn".

The title lends itself for some to believe that JWs did proclaim that the Axis Powers would lose - and in a sense they did. But if you read the whole printed booklet - it basically says that Axis Powers are King of North and the Allied Forces (democratic) are King of the South and both would lose to Theocracy. There is no mention of Revelation 17 with any claim that Anglo American Power would prevail. There is also no mention here that the the UN would rise again.

Again the year is 1941 and Rutherford is only observing what is going on around the world from his viewpoint. His labeling and Categorizing things as world powers left out any mention of major nations with their own struggles like India and China, Middle East, and Africa where few had heard of JWs idea of theocracy. His rhetoric was still anti-big business/anti religious-meddling. All in all, his speech and this subsequent booklet, might as well have been named 'Axis Powers will lose and So will Allied Forces'. Nothing here whatsover that says Anglo America would come out on top.

axis Powers

ap2

Anyway this next bit is what I see as a cop out:

ap3

ap5

So in essence The End of the Axis Powers was lumped in with all the other Kingdoms to be destroyed at Armageddon - nothing specific here about who would come out Victor in WWII - according to this talk and booklet - neither the Axis Powers nor the Allied forces would win.

The only clear prediction I see is that every gov't loses and Armageddon would be coming at the end of the WWII struggle seen at the time as King of North vs King of South. This is not what happened though - so chalk this one up as another prediction that utterly failed.

My search continues - though. I'm sure there are references that back up the talk JWs gave to the public. I'll see if I can find that "Peace can it Last" booklet.

17

Need help fact checking public talk at the DC

by just n from bethel in

i have taken the time to transcribe part of the public talk given at the dc.

it was interesting because it basically said the witnesses used the bible to fortell the fall of the axis powers in wwii.

now when i first heard the speaker say it - my ears perked up.

just n from bethel

Hi all. I have taken the time to transcribe part of the public talk given at the DC. It was interesting because it basically said the Witnesses used the bible to fortell the fall of the Axis Powers in WWII. Now when I first heard the speaker say it - my ears perked up. I was like that's such a specific claim for a public talk - anybody in the public would certainly fact check what he said and if proved wrong or twisted it would really make them look bad.

After the talk I asked some others if they caught that. I basically said, "you guys heard him say that right? - that we foretold that the Axis Powers would lose WWII?" They said at first, 'no that's not what he said - he just said the witnesses would come out victorious.' I was like 'no - he said that we (JWs) said the Nazis would lose and the Allied forces would win - and that we said that before it happened.' -

Later I asked someone I knew who was working on the program if I heard right. He said yes -absolutely - the talk said that and so did we. I could've talked to the speaker but this was someone just as knowlegeable about the talk outline. Now when I pressed him if we actually proclaimed the Axis Powers would fall in WWII he said we probably didn't use the term 'Axis Powers' but likely pointed to the King of the North (which was wierd because I always thought the King of the North was Russia - which was part of the Allied forces??). This was a bit different explanation than that given in the talk as transcribed below.Below it says the reason we knew was because of Revelation claiming that the Anglo-American power would prevail. (Too bad that wouldn't have worked so well for Viet-Nam).

Now I know some have already addressed the rise of the UN and how weak the claim was as made last year at the DC - but this is something that I have never heard before. I don't remember reading it in Daniel bookstudy or Revelation Bookstudy. Worse, I feel it might be one of the most blatant attempts at re-writing history that I've ever seen. So here it is: Thanks to Yknot for uploading the talk.

"I would imagine that many of you were thinking and have used the point too, that the bible is accurate in the sense of prophecy. That is what sets it apart really, from everything else. And you’re right. But we’re not going to talk about old prophecies; we’re going to talk about one that happened within your lifetime for many of you.

And this is one that took place near the end of the second world war. And that was before the second world war ended, Jehovah’s Witnesses knew from their study of the scriptures, that the Axis powers made up of Hitler, Germany, and also Japan and Italy – they would lose the war.

This was based upon their understanding of Revelation chapter 17:9,10 where it mentions there would be only 7 world powers and the 7 th one, the Anglo American one, was in existence.

And also they used the scriptures to see that what had been formerly known as the League of Nations, would go out of existence temporarily but would come back in a very similar form. And in that talk given in 1942, “Peace Can it last” – right during the second world war, it mentioned that fact, that there would be a ‘uniting of nations’ – they didn’t say the ‘United Nations’, they said a ‘uniting of nations’. Some of you have read that before. So they were in understanding of that.

Heimlich Himmler, who was one of the henchmen of Adolph Hitler, and was head of the Nazi SS, once bragged that the Witnesses would give in, they would capitulate. Now at the end of the Nazi regime, he was on the run. And when he was fleeing he encountered brother Lubke at Harzwalde, and asked him, “well Bible students, what happens now?” [speaker says this attempting to mimic a German accent]. His regime had fallen apart and he was an outlaw. He was on the run. Well brother Lubke gave him a thorough witness and showed that Jehovah’s Witnesses had always reckoned with the collapse of the Nazi regime and with their own deliverance. Well Himmler turned away and not too long after that he committed suicide by poising himself.

Interestingly enough, another German who was an SS officer, a former SS officer, and this was right after the war, was contacted by Jehovah’s Witnesses who gave him the Booklet, “Peace Can it Last?” and it was written in German. He sat down and read it. And he told his wife, “look this was written in 1942, three years before the war ended. And here they said exactly what was going to happen. These people used the Bible to do this. They must know something. I want to find out.” And he became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Now you can read about brother Lubke’s experience in the 1974 yearbook on page 211 and the experience of this other German officer who we just talked about in the 1995 Awake, Jan 8 th issue page 13. Modern day fulfillment of prophecy."

What, if any, reference could a believing Witness use to show that there is any truth to this? And of course on the other hand - what references should those wanting just the truth look to see what the WT was really saying in regards to the Axis Powers and WWII?

116

Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 in

"jw's are an entirely different animal from manson's followers.

they bleed you slowly to death (literally and figuratively), but the biggest harm jw's perpetuate is the lives that are put on hold for "theocratic" activities.

a rich life is denied its members because of their doomsday scenarios' said alltimejeff, a former jehovah's witnesses missionary in west africa.. in view of the recent generation change and interpretation, please, what do you think about that?

just n from bethel

Man I really didn't think this was Reniaa at first - now I think I've been had - I'm such a newbie - hook, line, and sinker - sheeze.

Next time I get caught up in discussion with her will somebody please come hit me on the head with a tack hammer?!!!